Pembroke – After a lengthy and passionate debate last Tuesday night, Pembroke council was equally divided on a vote that would have directed a councillor to issue a public apology for remarks made during a public meeting earlier this year that we’re found to have breached the Code of Conduct.

During the correspondence portion of the October 15 meeting, Deputy-Mayor Brian Abdallah introduced a letter from Tony Fleming of Cunningham, Swan, Carty, Little and Bonham LLP., the Integrity Commissioners for the city, dated October 8, regarding a complaint they had received against Councillor Ian Kuehl.

The complaint was initiated as a result of a comment he made at a public meeting in April about concerns community members raised with respect to the conditions around The Grind. (The Grind is non-profit organization that assists the homeless, and those dealing with mental health issues and addictions).

“I don’t have a problem with addicts, but I have a problem with assholes,” he had stated.

Dpty-Mayor Abdallah noted correspondence regarding the complaint was distributed to council.

“In summary, the complaint alleged that the member attended a town hall public meeting over certain behaviour here in the downtown. A quote from Councillor Kuehl that was reported by a local media outlet contained a word that the complainant found unsuitable.”

The letter went on to state the investigation found, “the statement made by the member constituted a breach of the Code of Conduct.”

“The Integrity Commissioner recommends that council issue a public reprimand to ensure that the public know that it does not condone this conduct,” it stated.

The second action suggested the information be posted on the city’s website. Councillor Troy Purcell immediately suggested the item be posted on the city’s information website. No one else chose to speak on that and the motion carried.

In terms of the reprimand, Mayor Ron Gervais suggested that instead of voting as to whether Coun. Kuehl should be reprimanded for his actions, he be directed to issue a public apology for his remarks. He said issues regarding the IC, while not frequent, happen too frequently for his liking.

He said since joining council in 2010, the landscape has changed saying things are a lot more vicious today than in the past. Mayor Gervais noted the Code of Conduct has allowed individuals in the community to make complaints to the Integrity Commissioner based on the laws that are in place.

“There are times when I look at it and really question why is it that we’re not entitled to know who the individual is behind it, and we just, moments ago, dealt with a complaint in respect to myself.”

He said the complaints have even moved beyond just attacking council members to attacking staff as well.

“I know sometimes we say things that, in retrospect, we wish we had not. I’m human and know that when I’m out and about, as friends of mine always say, I’m never Ron Gervais anymore. And I recognize that.

“So, in my mind, an apology to recognize that sometimes we say things which we ought not, would simply put it to bed, and it would be over,” he added.

He said sometimes words are used because of the vernacular today and people are not mindful of the time or place they are used, adding with the scrutiny today, he may be the subject of a complaint someday for doing something similar.

“I recognize that and it’s very unfortunate, and it makes me wonder sometimes, who in the future might want to run for this particular position. You’re trying the best that you can to represent the residents, and yet, you get attacked.”

Councillor Ed Jacyno noted each member of council is very passionate about their role of serving the public, as are the staff.

“Integrity and accountability underly our elected positions,” he said.

He said when council members go out in the public, they are not just individuals, they are the elected representatives who often get stopped by people wherever they may be, about issues or concerns they may have. He reminded council a Code of Conduct was established in the city in 2001, noting it is there as a guide for council to follow and adhere to. 

Coun. Jacyno cited a section of the Code of Conduct that stated council must treat members of the public, staff and each other in a respectful manner. It continued to note members must not use indecent, abusive, or insulting words or expressions against any member of staff or the public.

He said he too has been guilty of speaking in the heat of the moment, adding if he felt he was wrong he would apologize. He noted the Integrity Commissioner has made a decision and now it’s up to council to make a decision on the recommendations.

No Reprimand

Councillor Troy Purcell, who was the subject of a complaint in November 2023, was very passionate about the subject. He questioned why no individual chooses to pursue an informal complaint procedure to address the issue, noting he addressed that last November during his investigation.

He noted, based on an earlier decision that night to pursue the hiring of a new Integrity Commissioner, he would like to see the Code of Conduct altered to make that a viable option.

“It’s so easy to get a Code of Conduct complaint. It happens, so let’s resolve the issue here.

“Telling somebody to apologize is not really a thing that I’m into,” he added.

He said all of council have said things they likely regret; they just haven’t been the subject of complaints.

“It’s so easy to get a complaint. So put yourself in everybody else’s shoes and understand that we’re here to provide a service and support for people. We don’t try to be disrespectful; we may argue a point.

“And we also can’t be policing every word that is concerned respectful or disrespectful,” he added. “The intention was not to hurt; the intention was to address a concern in our community.” 

Coun. Purcell said he agreed with some of the comments Coun. Kuehl had made, noting the behaviour of some people is conducive to them being called that name.

“I think we need to move forward and I will not be supporting any type of reprimand,” he stated.

Councillor Patricia Lafreniere wished the decision on a reprimand was not on council’s shoulders, suggesting a third party should be involved. She had spoken with Coun. Kuehl about his comments, adding she was not happy with them, but he later explained the circumstances that led to it being used. She noted each member of council has taken the required training regarding what can or cannot be said, and an apology was in order.

“This is a serious issue though,” she stated.

Councillor Andrew Plummer stated no reprimand should be enacted and no apology was necessary. Dpty-Mayor Abdallah said he did not believe it was his duty to tell any other member of council to apologize.

“While Councillor Kuehl’s use of the term was not the acceptable word to use, in my opinion, it was a lapse in judgement. The context in which the word was spoken does not meet the test for being abusive language.”

He added the IC cited the rest of Coun. Kuehl’s speech was appropriate, adding the attendees he spoke to said it was a very emotional meeting.

“Attendees I spoke to felt he spoke candidly without intent to offend,” he remarked.

He said the issue should serve as a reminder to all to be cautious of what they say.

In a recorded vote, Councillors Jacyno and Lafreniere and Mayor Gervais voted yes to Coun. Kuehl providing a public apology, while Councillors Purcell and Plummer and Dpty. Mayor Abdallah voted no. The result was a 3-3 tie which meant the motion ordering an apology was defeated.

Coun. Kuehl, who was not allowed to participate in the discussion, sat quietly as his peers determined his fate.